On Encouraging Douche Behavior

There is a fine line between being a total sociopathic douche, and simply having a strong masculine frame.  Let’s delve more into this distinction.

Commenter Wingwoman has an interesting reaction to the manosphere:

The worst way to lose your virginity is to get raped.
Encouraging douche behavior and self promoting products that don’t work makes most of the sphere look bad. Speaking in generalities, being hostile to people who even disagree slightly are routine.

I think some good could come from these blogs but it often turns into the nasty side (people with serious possibly mental (personality disorder or psychopaths) or criminal issues) or impractical side(so cons thinking everybody should be a virgin never get divorced etc…).Hyper masculine advocating attracts the kind of people who are harmed by helping their victims get away from them.
Have never figured out why the racist show up a lot except they have some cross over beliefs that correlate with the others.

Thanks for the comments, wingwomen.   I like when people not from the sphere post thoughtful comments about the sphere, as it provides a window into the mindset of people who just stumble across the sphere.

Allow me to agree and then respectfully disagree with some of your points. I agree that rape is probably the shittiest way to lose your v-card.  I am definitely aware of this fact since by the feminist definition I was raped to lose mine (was black-out drunk, girl was older, I did not remember consenting). And I agree with you that there is some major groupthink going on in the sphere at times.  And I agree with you that the racist argument is stupid.

Now I will respond to a few of your points I take issue with:

“Encouraging douche behavior and self promoting products that don’t work makes most of the sphere look bad.”

Most manosphere blogs do not promote any products.  And most of the products that are promoted actually do work.  Are you disagreeing with ‘game’ as a functioning method for self-improvement?  And saying that ‘game’ means ‘acting like a douche’ is a misinterpretation, in general.  It is a guide to self-improvement and acting more confident.

Hyper masculine advocating attracts the kind of people who are harmed by helping their victims get away from them.

I don’t understand the point you are trying to make here.  But I will say that the manosphere does encourage males to become more masculine.  This is attractive to a lot of guys because inherently males are demonized by the mainstream media.  The manosphere is about learning not to feel shameful about that masculinity and become masculine in a positive way.  We’re not trying to act douchy, just…more masculine.  Kind of ridiculous that we have to relearn it.

I will say this about the current state of masculinity: we have not agreed on a simplistic version of strong masculinity that is comfortable for all men in the 21st century.

Question.  Would you, as a women, be attracted at all to a man who was smaller, physically weaker, lower-status, and a little bit dumber than you?

If you answer yes, that’s another debate we can have.  But the point is, the manosphere is about men trying to regain all of these characteristics.  They need to be such a way in order to mate with, hook up with, and marry a good woman.  Some commenters, reviewers, and bloggers get a bit rambunctious at times talking about how to manipulate women, but they don’t speak for everyone.

Yours Truly and My Favorite,

Keanu

15 responses to “On Encouraging Douche Behavior

  1. “Hyper masculine advocating attracts the kind of people who are harmed by helping their victims get away from them.” ~This is a really poorly worded sentence, but it almost seems like she’s saying that abusive men are hype masculine (a great overgeneralization), and that encouraging overt masculine behavior is harmful to the victims of abuse (I could be waaaay off here). However, I haven’t seen advocacy for abuse of women within the sphere. Contrary to her statement, I see posts on the betterment of men and the male/female dynamic through masculine behavior.
    Great post! Very well thought out 🙂

  2. @ Darlingdoll

    ~This is a really poorly worded sentence, but it almost seems like she’s saying that abusive men are hype masculine (a great overgeneralization), and that encouraging overt masculine behavior is harmful to the victims of abuse (I could be waaaay off here)

    I think what she’s trying to get at is the dark triad traits. Some of the manosphere sites do promote this to some extent, but it’s really intermixed with mostly self improvement things (aka outcome independence, working out, etc.). Becoming a man/masculine does not necessarily have to be manipulative.

    Of course, there are some who believe that the masculine traits of confidence, assertiveness, etc are just jerks/assholes/etc no matter how it is employed. So it is what it is in that context.

  3. Typical idiotic woman. Never any mention of the tens of millions of men who have had their lives destroyed through divorce. No, to a woman, it’s only about HER FEELINGS. She FEELS that MRAs are a bunch of “douchebags”. Uh okay? And American women AREN’T? Hey, at least we men haven’t destroyed tens of millions of women financially and emotionally through divorce. Nope, that’s YOU WOMEN who did that.

  4. I would say that abusive men are those that operare in such a system based on being ashamed of themselves to such a degree that instead of dealing with problems or situations in a normal, healthy manner they lash out at the world.

    They may appear masculine, but it is pure facade as they hide the self they’re ashamed of behind a stereotypical image of what they believe is masculine.

    I can only see the manosphere as helping avoid creating these types of men as we focus on bettering ourselves, dealing with male issues, and concerning ourselves with what we see as a gross misunderstanding of how boys should be raised to be healthy men of quality

    • That’s the problem though.

      Most abusive men don’t give 2 craps about whether they’re abusive or not. It’s like telling rapists not to rape.

      I think most white knights and women think the manosphere is horrible, misogynistic, etc etc for 2 reasons:

      1. Some manosphere sites promote dark triad traits, although I would say the vast majority are about self improvement.

      2. Part of taking the red pill is that it’s very bitter. Bitter men are more likely to lash out in anger at women and start to manipulate them. However, most of these men tend to outgrow it…. but these men that lash out with dark triad behavior are the ones that the women/white knights/etc. comment on all the time.

      • Fair on both counts. I was talking more of raising men to be more balanced and prevent such types of men from even existing – I think the ones already out there are beyond the scope of self help advice willingly sought after and followed on the internet.

        I do have to say that the only lashing out at women that I’ve seen has been verbal and argument based. Not physical. Though obviously this is hard to tell as the manosphere is only comprised of what people willingly tell others. Even with anonymity, I doubt people would say if they were physically lashing out at women.

      • Leap,

        I agree. It’s easy to misunderstand on the Internet, and the bitterness comes across as “hate” and “misogyny.”

        Then again, men becoming more masculine is also seen as “hate” and “misogyny.”

        Whatever the case, there’s always going to be haters. But I do agree with trying to prevent and cut down on that. But it’s tough when guys’ entire worldview are shattered in front of them.

  5. If she is ‘THE’ wing woman, she has belittled game in some of her youtube videos to plump up her own product, saying that guys come to me because they feel cheated by PUA’s. Cheap shot but business is business I suppose, she’s pushing more or less the same game theory anyway just from a females perspective.

  6. As a side note, I can be a douche half of the time. Women talk shit about douches are turn offs but those are the guys they respond to. For instance, Mike the Situation of Jersey Shore would be considered a douche by 99% of chicks you ask, yet on the show, he got laid more than the less douchie cast members. Douches get laid. I’m proud to be a douche or as we PUA’s say: an asshole/bad boy.

  7. As a side note, I can be a douche half of the time. Women talk shit about douches are turn offs but those are the guys they respond to. For instance, Mike the Situation of Jersey Shore would be considered a douche by 99% of chicks you ask, yet on the show, he got laid more than the less douchie cast members. Douches get laid. I’m proud to be a douche or as we PUA’s say: an asshole/bad boy.

    Most men may not agree with my position on this but there’s a time and place for it (doucherie) where it works wonderfully.

  8. Hey Keanu, been a while. I see that you are very serious in terms of attempting to find an appropriate label for mens rights. I apologize for not taking this as seriously as I should have. I have a few suggestions for you to consider. What about ‘The Order of Gentleman’ or ‘Gentleman’s Leadership’? I’m quite serious about these two. What men en masse need to show women is that if they wish to see more gentleman out and about, they need to show respect and appreciation for what ‘gentleman’ can give them.

    Why would a man ever choose such an option with the pitfalls are so ever present?

    At the end of the day, we all know that men actually enjoy being respected in such a manner, and what I assume we need to do is show womenkind is that if they choose to act in their present manner, then we will take our resources and our efforts elsewhere.

    • A label would be good and bad. I think people, young people in particular, need something to latch on to that isn’t Tucker Max but that isn’t ‘mens rights’ or ‘pick-up artist.’ A re-branding of all those three that brings back strong masculinity in a positive way.

      Sometimes I don’t know though, I think we might be fucked moving forward… Terms like “Dominant” and “submissive” have both gained negative connotations, and I think a lot of guys are scared off by not wanting to be overly dominant with women, and women don’t want to be submissive. Anyhow, I think we need a reframing.

      Thanks for the shotout though, I’ve had some posts on the burner lately but none that I really like just yet.

      • Looking forward to your future posts my good man. I’ve one last suggestion for you. How about “The Order of Gentleman”? In truth it’s from an alcohol commercial, but I think it’s the most conducive to your goal. In this day and age, men need to realize just how valuable being a gentleman is and how they shouldn’t accept any woman in their lives until they prove their worthy.

        Just another suggestion, keep up the good work my man!!

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s