What do Normies Think of the Manosphere?

*Today’s post is a follow-up from yesterday’s post, The Manosphere Needs a New Vessel. I wanted to provide some concrete evidence for my assertion that the manosphere, as it stands right now, will not go mainstream.*

Normie: Noun. Someone who embraces mainstream culture.

What does a normie think of the manosphere?  I will show you.  I came across some mainstream research entitled

Dare to be different: Defense of the research of sex differences.

The authors of the piece are neuroscientists who are obviously in favor of researching gender differences, something that is apparently controversial now in academia (god help us!). My friend Nick Black posted a neutral comment on their site and a link  to one of Chateau Heartiste’s posts, hoping for an intelligent (yet mainstream) response:

Nice post. The fact that you even have to make the point that the genders are different is absurd. It also makes me glad I do not work in academia…yet at least.

I think this post begs another question: Even if we could make the genders as similar as possible and try to negate some of the hardwiring, would we want to? Men and women are wired certain ways for specific reasons.

Also Katy, I came across this a while ago and I am really curious to hear your intelligent thoughts on the scientific argument he puts forward: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/01/15/the-manjaw-ification-of-american-women-science/

Yea, probably a trigger warning on that one.

The response he got, from a Neuroscience Ph.D. student:

Whoa, you are posting a link to a pickup-artist website describing how folks treating their daughters as equal to their sons causes women to grow “man-jaws” in response to Katy’s very even-handed blog post about physiological sex differences? I don’t want to put words into Katy’s mouth, but I will take a few from her post above: “It should also be our responsibility to monitor the way our results are interpreted by outside sources and to counter misrepresentations.” I would describe that link as a misrepresentation of the research carried out by Amy Cudy. To put it lightly. (One of the many, many things wrong with it: we discussed using testosterone measurements to draw conclusions about behavior during previous sessions of the Neuroethics Journal Club — it is not a perfect method, and higher testosterone doesn’t always correlate with higher aggression, risk-taking, or other stereotypically “Alpha male” behaviors.)

I think Katy’s critiques of the way some feminists have approached research on sex differences are totally valid — it’s foolish to say that male and female brains aren’t different just because their gross anatomy is the same. But, reading blog posts like the one you linked makes it easy to see why some feminists feel the need to take hard-line positions against the use of scientific research to “prove” sex differences, especially when it comes to studies on brains and behavior (as opposed to more socially neutral processes like digestion). When a study on elevated circulating testosterone (in both men and women!) under certain conditions is used to argue that the “rancid ideology” of feminism is being used to “MAKE WOMEN MANLIER,” it’s enough to make me want to give up on those kinds of studies forever. Thankfully I’m not the only scientist in the world, so I’m sure someone will keep on doing them. (emphasis mine)

To sum up, she calls the manosphere a ‘rancid ideology.’

Push hard, and you’ll only encounter more resistance.

Personally, I think anyone who thinks the manosphere is going to suddenly pop out of the woodwork in 2013 is delusional.

Commenter Francis Begbie sums up:

With all the white nationalist shit at Roissy’s blog, Roosh’s pessimism, Dalrock’s christian slant, Rollo’s academia style of writing, there’s little there to appeal to the mainstream. Roosh is the unofficial head of The Manosphere at this stage, and like you said, he isn’t really marketable.

Do you think the manosphere will go big time mainstream any time soon?

13 responses to “What do Normies Think of the Manosphere?

  1. I have done similar experiments on my personal facebook page to see how people in my circle would react. Sometimes there were resounding ‘likes’ where I pointed out the hilarity of some dating situations. One time I repeated what Allain de Botton said on twitter (21st century dating issue: be more interesting than her iphone) that was liked and commented on by girls.

    Then a few times I added some stuff that was borderline Roosh, that just got ignored with a few girls disagreeing and a male friend saying “wtf dude” in chat.
    While that was the wrong platform it was still an indication, of where ‘normies’ draw the line.

  2. A woman in academia probably won’t seriously engage an idea which threatens to undermine the ideology on which her way of life is based. She’s not going to out-group herself that easily – she might not even call herself a feminist, but she passively accepts their consensus.

    There are only few men who are willing to break away from political correctness, and far fewer women. Such is the way of the rebel. A more interesting guinea pig might perhaps be a seemingly average man you don’t know well enough to sense his receptiveness to red pill ideas.

    The manosphere may very well be discovered by the manstream, but only in an “uncovering a den of evil anti-feminists” way – for now. In terms of ideological recruits, we can for the next few years expect a continued stream of divorced, omega, and lesser beta men who seek to improve themselves.

    • “A woman in academia probably won’t seriously engage an idea which threatens to undermine the ideology on which her way of life is based.”

      Most definitely. Incidentally, this is precisely the reason why so many beta guys have issues unplugging: they don’t want to seriously engage an idea which threatens to undermine the ideology on which their life is based.

      Which leads right into my comment on your second point, which I happen to agree with. Some people (mostly males) are surely searching for some answers to questions that they may not LIKE to ask themselves: why don’t I have a good job, why can’t I keep a gf, why is this asshole I know just dominating with women while I’m not? What the manosphere does do is provide a framework for answers.

      For most people to become active in the manosphere, you need to have a tipping point moment in your life, and also simply be aware of its existence. You need to be an *active* learner. To be engaged with feminism, on the other hand, all you have to do is passively watch your facebook feed and see all the pro-masculine women, anti-masculine men message that the media conveys.

  3. I think you’re missing a big issue.

    The blog world is slowing eating away at “mainstream” media like newspapers. The newspapers are like a tyrannosaurus rex in a tarpit.
    They can scream and struggle, but they’re sinking.

    The manosphere doesn’t need a leader. It is more effective without any single leader. If we have a leader, we can be co-opted. The leader can be bribed and brought to heel.

    If we have no leader, we might never become mainstream, but that doesn’t mean we won’t have a salutary effect.

  4. Yeah, the adolescent presentation style does Heartiste no favours, despite a lot of what is discussed having genuine scientific merit.

    By its very nature as running counter to mainstream culture, the manosphere attracts more individuals that could be considered societal “outliers”, and there tends to be a corresponding style of discourse that goes along with that which normies find off putting.

    That’s not to say that there aren’t mature, well reasoned manosphere blogs out there, on the contrary. It’s just that Heartiste is not one of them – perhaps not the best blog to refer an academic to!

  5. Ummm… “Rancid ideology” is what Heartiste called feminism. It’s a quote form his article, she’s not calling the manosphere that. And it’s true that Heartiste, though often a good source of info and speculation, sometimes stretches credulity.

  6. It sounds a little silly, but I always thought the real way to effect change was the way the two kids did in Ender’s Game. They make fake accounts (to hide their age, or in our case to hide our male-ness) and write political commentary. The key is to write it without the jargon of ‘the manosphere’ which instantly would out you, and to write it with a level head, in a way that media/women would accept it. Game the entire population at once, if you will.

  7. What would it take for the manosphere to hit the mainstream
    I think that most concepts (hypergamy, overcoming LMR, understanding that interactions with other people can be broken down into algorithms) would have to be watered down, so as not to draw heavy fire from manosphere enemies. A manoshpere ‘lite’, which presents a less politically incorrect version, which the average man or woman can agree with. A family friendly PG version, if you like. One step at a time.

  8. Pingback: Why 3rd Millenium Men? | Young Man Red Pill·

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